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GT engine removal
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Dave-M
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 278
Location: Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: GT engine removal Reply with quote

Before the site was hacked I did a post regarding engine removal on my GT. Below is a picture of the engine bay as it was when I aquired the car. You can see that removal of the engine is impossible other than complete removal of the front suspension and dropping it out from the bottom. There is around 5" of bellhousing under the battery box and only 2" between the timing chain casing and front crossmember.
Anyone else encountered this? Did you find a solution other than as above?



Regards
Dave-M
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Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis


Last edited by Dave-M on Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PaulL
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Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Tenterden, Kent

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave

I don't remember any problem removing the engine (E93A) from my GT but it was nearly 40 years ago now!
Removing just the engine was an easy job for two of us, undoing the bolts and lifting it out suspended from a big plank of wood.

Normally, to remove the engine with gearbox attached needs the car to be raised at the back, and as you lift it all out you lower the back end, and lift the whole lot out at an angle. An engine crane is a good idea!

Good luck

Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, My car is a 1960 GT fitted with the built in Rochdale tubular chassis. This is where the problem lies. If the car was on a ford chassis it would not be a problem.
Regards
Dave-M
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Dave-M
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 278
Location: Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, Just looked on your website, you olympic looks just as mine used too. Factory fitted tailgate strut and works arch kit fitted (LOL)
Is it still parked under the tree or have you progressed on?
Regards
Dave
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Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis
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PaulL
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Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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Location: Tenterden, Kent

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave
Its still under the tree I'm afraid.
The rear arches have been returned to original, and I started repairing the gelcoat cracks etc, but haven't spent much time at all on it for the last few years.
However, a year ago I was made redundant, so should have more time, at least thats the idea but I don't know where last summer went!
I have been looking for an engine for it for the past year, and have just bought 2 MGB engines, hopefully I will recondition one and put the other back on Ebay.
Also, my son has got the car bug (thats his Westfield on the website) so the garage now needs to be extended!
Hopefully I will get started as soon as the warmer weather comes, and will make some progress this year.

Paul
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Dave-M
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 278
Location: Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Paul, Why MGB and not a Ford engine? You would then have the possibility of a 5 speed box. Westfield look a tidy job, does he let you drive it? A comparison report would be good when you finish yours.
I have just had some polycarbonate rear side windows made for mine which apart from some road springs gives me all the parts I need other than interior trim.
We really should have this topic in the Olympic section not here. So if you reply it might be best to do it there and keep things tidy.
Regards
Dave-M
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GT with Rochdale Chassis
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PaulL
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Posts: 25
Location: Tenterden, Kent

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I will reply here anyway.
The Olympic came with a B-Series 1622cc seized engine, so the MGB was an easy swap.
The Westfield is a 2 litre Pinto with twin 45 DellOrtos etc so goes like stink.
Its off the road at the moment but I now have a half - share in it so when we decide to tax/insure it I will be able to use it.
It seems to be much faster than Alan's phase 1 which is the only Olympic I have driven, but the Icy blast trying to turn your eyeballs inside-out may be the reason for that.
Back to your GT engine problem, I suppose you will have to drop the front suspension, but it went in one way or another. I suppose you can't move the gearbox back because of the torque tube.

Good luck and perhaps see you at the AGM. (I usually come up with Paul Narramore)

Paul
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Dave-M
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 278
Location: Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, Half owner! lucky man. The engine will come out one way or another but I have a load of bodywork to do first. What can you remember about your Gt? Especially the driving. I am about to invest a lot of time into mine but have nagging doubts about the dissapointment that might follow when it eventually hits the road. I tend to use my classics on a very regular basis and, from past memories of my first car (E93A 1947 9-10s from my engineering drawing teacher), I can't help but wonder! As a profit making exercise it has to be a proposition but I keep thinking of modifying it to be an everday user, what do you think?
I am hoping to get to my first AGM and look forward to meeting other owners and seeing their cars.
Regards
Dave-M
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GT with Rochdale Chassis
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PaulL
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Location: Tenterden, Kent

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, I think the least said about my GT the better!
I bought it in 1964 or 65 for 25. When I passed my test the first problem was insurance, once that was sorted I was on the road, but looking back on it now it was a deathtrap!
It was first registered in 1959 I think, as a Rochdale-Ford, with IFS, telescopic dampers and 15" wheels, a 4 speed gearbox conversion but strangely a Ford 8 engine, single Ford carb.
This was quite a reasonable spec but either it had not been put together properly or it had not been looked after. Although it was only 5 or 6 years old it was in a state, the most embarassing thing was the brake fade! Also about half a turn of play in the steering, and just about every other fault you can think of.
However, I don't think it was a good example and please don't be put off by my experience. After a year and a bit I had learned a lot about cars, and sold it for 50, replacing it with a Minivan which was a totally different driving experience!
I think a properly sorted GT should be a reasonable drive, it all depends on how much care is taken with the mechanical bits and of course the trim etc, which can make a big difference. Mine was not a good example, for instance I had to wear bicycle clips because of the water and draft that came through the hole round the bottom of the steering column!
It was this early experience with Rochdales that lead me to go and see an Olympic fairly local to me that was advertised in "Practical Classics", I bought it as a non-runner and a non-runner it's been ever since! But hopefully not for too much longer.

Don't be put off but you did ask!

Paul
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Dave-M
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 278
Location: Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,
The spec of your old GT sounds quite good but your comments have set me thinking. We will see what happens as I think about what to do whilst rubbing down and painting mine. I hope you still have the bike clips, you will probably need them for the Westie but for a different reason.
How long have you had your Olympic?
If I can help you in any way please let me know. I think I have most of mine sorted and can send you Photo's of most things.
I have just sorted a suitable heater assembly which will fit correctly and not interfere with the dash.
Hope you make good progress this summer.
Keep in touch
Regards
Dave-M
PS. nice profit on the GT Bet you wish you could do that today
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PaulL
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Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Tenterden, Kent

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually Dave, I do still have the very same pair of bicycle clips!
I think from memory I bought the Olympic in about 1988 or 89.
I did quite a bit to it in the early 90s but after being made redundant in 1992, the new job meant less time off and so things rather slipped.
Now after being made redundant again a year ago (6 months before I was due to retire) I have a lot more spare time, so this year should see some progress.
I have a Land Rover heater for mine, but haven't investigated fitting it yet.
Most of the potential problems I have thought about, but until you get to actually do it.....
Is your Olympic on the road?

Good luck with the GT and see you at the AGM.

Paul.
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MMcKays
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting correspondence, guys - I've just got back on so can join in! Paul, do I have details of your GT on the GT Register? If not, can you recall the registration number and do you have any pics?

Dave, stop worrying about what it'll be like to drive - as Paul says, a well-sorted GT is fine and, no, his did not have a good spec at all. Yes, it had some good bits - IFS, 15in and four-speed gearbox - but otherwise it was crap. A Ford 8 engine with single carb won't pull the skin off a rice pudding - your 10 engine with twin carbs and tubular exhaust manifold should put out double the power. Also, with 15in wheels it's vital to have a high ratio axle, without that the car is screaming at 50mph and flat out at 55-60. As for the bike clips, I drove my GT through the winter in Scotland - it had a fug-stirrer heater with a demister vent for the windscreen and it was warm, cosy and very practical. It also cruised at 75mph all the way from Scotland to Southampton and back several times, loaded up with all my student paraphernalia, including a massive 'tower' stereo system (remember those?).
Sure, it's never going to be as fast, nimble or quiet as a modern car but if you wanted that, you wouldn't have bought it!

As for the engine access, I hope someone else who owns or has owned a Rochdale-chassis GT will comment some time! There are so few around that this question has not arisen before to my knowledge. Hopefully you won't be taking the engine out too often, so I guess rebuilding it first and installing it before you fit up the suspension isn't too much of a hardship - but if you're planning to take the engine out regularly I guess the options of cutting back part of that front crossmember (in a smooth curve and welding a plate on it to retain most of the strength) could be an option; otherwise cutting the crossmember out and making it removable or doing the same with a section of the bulkhead... Making sure you don't lose the stiffness of the structure in all cases is of course vitally important.

Good luck with it!

All the best
Malcolm
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PaulL
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Location: Tenterden, Kent

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Malcolm, just a quick one. You do have a photo, the reg was 9RMP

Regards

Paul
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Dave-M
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 278
Location: Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul /Malcolm
What a brilliant reg number, If you still had it I would offer you 10 to use it on my GT.
My Olympic is not a runner but is getting closer by the day. The shell is painted and nearly all the other bits are sorted. I prefer to work up to a full kit of parts and then assemble them as adding each bit along the way can sometimes need parts already fitted needing to be redone if everything does not go to plan. I can send you a few pictures if you wish, it might inspire you, who knows.
Malcolm, Regarding the sidevalve in the GT. I am having (as a tight yorkshireman) great difficulty in accepting the 1,000 rebuild costs to get a decent sidevalve engine. By dealing on ebay and ducking and diving I have, for my Olympic, managed to aquire all the bits for a 1700 dry sumped. big valve rally cammed, pre crossflow with 2x 40 Dcoe's based on a 711m block. All this stands me at less than 200. I cant for the life of me manage to find anything decent for a sidevalve anywhere.
I know I will have to bit the bullet and do it if I want to preserve the value of the GT but it will hurt.
I am hoping to see the GT in Wolverhampton in the near future and will sort the pictures I promised.
I will not chop the crossmember and if it means removing the front suspension to get the engine out so be it.
Regards
Dave-M
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MMcKays
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys

Yes, I do have that photo of 9 RMP - thanks, Paul. I seem to remember you saying at the time that you thought you still had the logbook somewhere?!

Dave, keep trawling ebay! There was a fully rebuilt 100E engine on recently with a starting price of 650 that didn't attract a single bid, so that's the maximum you'd have to pay (OK, if you want to tune it you'd have to add more) - otherwise you can pick up secondhand 100E engines as unknown quantities for a tenner or so fairly regularly on ebay. I have one here that I paid 15 for, haven't taken the head off or anything so have no idea what's in it but you can have it for the same if you like - anything to get you going! You might have to buy several before you find one that's still good, but at 15 a time you build up a good stock of spare parts as well and get there in the end. Don't give up on the poor old sidevalve!

All the best
Malcolm
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