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Dave-M Registered User
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 377 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: Fuel tank |
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Following on from the post on Ethanol fuel and tank leakage I just want to add the following, which, I think, may have been discussed in part before.
The prime cause of leaking tanks is not the degradation of the Grp, even at 40 years old, it is caused by poor workmanship and poor design when the cars were made.
The tanks are formed by leaving a void when the outer shell and inner floor moulds are joined. The unfortunate thing about this is that it involves mating together, to form a fuel tight seal, a rough matting face with a smooth gelcote face. If done correctly it should seal but, if the gel face was not roughened and all traces of release agent removed, it will leach fuel between the two layers of the joint. This is exactly what has happened on my car.
I have cut an opening on the inner face of each tank to gain access and intend to laminate over the joint seams and gel over the whole of the inner faces of the tank with a similar gel to the one in Mikes link.
I think that due to the complicated shape of the inside of the tank any attempt to insert a pre formed tank into the space will result in a significant reduction in capacity, the best alternative and most costly solution could be a couple of rubber bag tanks.
Incidentally, the 38 year old Grp inside the tanks is in excellent condition and shows no sign of deterioration.
Regards
Dave _________________ Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis |
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Howard Evans Registered User
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 118 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: Fuel Tanks |
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Recently I 'removed' the LH tank of my Ph II, primarily because I didn't like the idea of the vulnerability of a GRP tank (RHS is steel), and also because I was getting a lot of debris in the fuel filter from this side.
I was amazed to find that the internal resin surfaces of the mouldings were absolutely 'as new' and there was very little actual debris at the bottom - no more than a quarter of an inch. However, the fuel pickup pipe had been positioned down in this 'mud-trap' area. If it had been an inch shorter, I'm sure there would have been so problem in this regard. |
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Alan Smith Registered User
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 90 Location: Littleborough, Lancashire
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Dave,
How did you get on with your idea for repairing the original fuel tanks?
Did it work out OK?
Was it worth the effort v fitting new ss side tanks or a new horizontal tank?
I ask because it sounds like the best solution to this problem?
Cheaper than fitting either of the options for new tanks?
Better than fitting a horizontal tank that uses valuable 'boot' space? |
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Dave-M Registered User
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 377 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: Fuel tank |
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Alan,I tried to reply to you yesterday but I could not copy and paste what I had written in office, I am busy today and will reply over the weekend.
Regards, Dave. _________________ Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis |
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Alan Smith Registered User
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 90 Location: Littleborough, Lancashire
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Dave _________________ Phase 1R Olympic
MM 1098 Engine & Gearbox |
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TonyS Registered User
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 231 Location: Worcestershire
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tank |
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Dave-M wrote: |
Alan,I tried to reply to you yesterday but I could not copy and paste what I had written in office, I am busy today and will reply over the weekend.
Regards, Dave. |
Hi Dave,
I have had problems cutting and pasting in to the Forum. I think sometimes there is a glitch in the programme?
When you paste in to the Message Body your message is there, when you press Preview the message has disappeared.
If this happens ignore Preview and press Submit, your message will now be in the Forum.
If you have a mistake in your message press edit, correct the mistake ignore Preview and press Submit, corrected message will now be in Forum.
Regards,
Tony.
ps) can you sort the problem Keith please _________________ Rochdale Olympic History Archive
Last edited by TonyS on Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave-M Registered User
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 377 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: Fuel tank |
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Tony,thank you. You have described the problem exactly. I will try what you suggest.
Regards, Dave. _________________ Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis |
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Dave-M Registered User
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 377 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:36 am Post subject: Fuel tank |
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Hello Alan, Thanks for reviving this 9 year old post, it is probably as relevant now as it was back then. The Ethanol issue is becoming greater with the passage of time.
Any way, in answer to your questions and to give you some insight to my current solution to the "fuel tank"problem, here goes.
I must confess, the original idea of glassing over the seams and covering with a petrol proof gel did not happen so I can’t tell you if it will solve your problem.
Below are a couple of pictures of the access holes that I cut to get inside the tanks, you will notice that the Phase 2 is similar but different to your Phase 1, the plan was to blank them off with aluminium plates on completion.
In the years between 2009 and now I did some research on using 2 part polyurethane to line the existing tanks and I thought it would be an excellent solution to the problem. It is totally resistant to petrol and can be brushed over the inner face of the tanks in multiple layers if required. It would act as a bonded in “bag” tank. It’s not a cheap fix and would cost £100+ (estimated) but still a lot less than other solutions.
The Polyurethane had been my favoured method until recently but I have now decided I really need to finish my Phase 2 and have decided to fit an underfloor tank specifically made to fit with 7 -8 gallon capacity. The concerns over a rear end smash played a significant part in my decision. I have no experience with the club tanks so I can’t comment but there is some discussion on here.
I will post up here regarding progress with my underfloor Phase 2 tank as it progresses.
If you need more info on the Polyurethane send me a message and we can discuss.
Regards, Dave _________________ Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis
Last edited by Dave-M on Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave-M Registered User
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 377 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: Fuel tank |
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Nice one Tony.
I prefer to do some posts in Word as it gives you time to revisit without actually posting the information which might be better with a second look.
Regards, Dave _________________ Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis |
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TonyS Registered User
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 231 Location: Worcestershire
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Dave,
Been dyslexic I always have to write in WORD first and then cut and paste.
I know of 2 Olympics in long term use with original Fibreglass tanks that the petrol has leached through all over the area of the tanks.
The outsides of the wings are covered in blisters and dissolved paint. The only answer is a alloy tank (Club ones are to small) “Duffy” has a 55lt alloy tank.
Regards,
Tony. _________________ Rochdale Olympic History Archive |
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Dave-M Registered User
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 377 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:18 pm Post subject: Fuel tank |
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Tony, The Ally tank solution is what I have decided to do. I am at the stage of sorting the Cad drawings to do a purpose made tank to fit the phase 2. Once the drawings are finished I will have the parts Laser cut and tig welded. The final capacity will depend on how far I decide to extend the tank across the car toward the silencer but my target is to have a range of 250 -300 miles minimum.
If anyone want's to have any input at the design stage I would be pleased to hear from them.
I also think I may have a solution to the spare wheel location which may be mounted where the tank needs to be.
Regards, Dave _________________ Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis |
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Alan Smith Registered User
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 90 Location: Littleborough, Lancashire
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply Dave, it was very interesting and much appreciated.
Thanks also to Tony for his comments and experience on this issue.
My Phase 1 has a smallish steel fuel tank mounted horizontally on the floor, so I assume a previous owner suffered with the original fibreglass fuel tank.
I liked the idea of reinstating the integrated fuel tank in order to maximise the space available if I decide to carry out a hatchback or boot conversion in the future.
However, I think I will now go with cleaning the sludge out of my existing steel fuel tank and keep it as is for now.
On the one hand, I want to get my car on the road asap as I have never driven a Rochdale yet, and I can't wait!
On the other hand, I prefer to get things right first time instead of doing something and then having to do it again. Also, I prefer to invest in worthwhile upgrades as and when the opportunity arises. It's not easy deciding what to do with my car. Original or modified? Ah well, there are worse problems in life.
I am reading your posts with interest. You are certainly cracking on with it. Good Luck! _________________ Phase 1R Olympic
MM 1098 Engine & Gearbox |
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Alan Smith Registered User
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 90 Location: Littleborough, Lancashire
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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I was planning on cleaning out the existing steel petrol tank.
Having taken it out, I can now see it is not looking too healthy.
The entire internal surface is covered with a coarse rust shale.
I am aware there are a wide variety of treatments available.
However, I'm not sure the amount of effort and cost involved is worth it, or whether the treatments are effective and long lasting?
Has anyone had any positive or negative experiences of using these treatments?
[/img]
21/4/18
Photo replaced.
_________________ Phase 1R Olympic
MM 1098 Engine & Gearbox |
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Dave-M Registered User
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 377 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:24 pm Post subject: tanks |
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Can anyone confirm that the fibreglass tanks in the Phase 1 & 2 both have the
same internal shape.
Regards, Dave _________________ Ph.2 Ford 1500 GT
GT with Rochdale Chassis |
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keith hamer Site Admin
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 313 Location: Ellesmere Port
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:22 am Post subject: Fuel tanks |
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The fibreglass fuel tanks in the ph1 and ph2 Olympics are very different although achieved using the same basic method, ie the outer skin of the car is the outer skin of the tank, the inner skin is formed by means of a closing panel bonded in place during the initial moulding process.
The ph1 having a lower and profiled rear floor and the ph2 having a higher boot floor means that the ph2 tank is effectively smaller capacity than that of the ph1.
The pictures show the ph2 tank fitted, and a ph1 tank.
_________________ Working to increase the profile of Rochdale Cars
Last edited by keith hamer on Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
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